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The
Fire Brigades' Union is calling for a 40% pay rise and have rejected
the 4% they have been offered.
As
the army and their Green Goddesses are mobilised, fears are growing
in Beds, Herts and Bucks that emergency cover may not be sufficient.
Should
this action be allowed? Do they deserve 40 per cent? What's the
answer? Have your say here.
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| Tony
Flynn, Radlett |
Wednesday
08
January, 2003 |
|
| We
have got to support the Firefighters not only are they fighting
for a pay rise they are fighting to keep the Fire service that
we need and not a service that would but cut to us as the public
if the goverment had there way. These people put there lives
on the line for us we want them to maintain that service. support
the Firefighters in there pay claim so they can maintaine a
full Fire service to us you do not know when you will need the
Firefighters but when you do you want a full service not one
that has been cut and could put lives at risk. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
8
January, 2003 |
|
| Thanks
for the info, John. I presume this is the Fire Cover Review,
which explains why I couldn't find it. I'll download, peruse
and get back. It may take some time.... |
| Caroline-
14 yrs , Lincoln |
Wednesday
8
January, 2003 |
|
| Yes,
I do think that firemen should be given a pay rise, but I dont
think a strike is the way to do it. I do admire people in that
line of work and I am not critising them in any bad way, for
it takes huge amount a bravery to do what they do. Although
while the strike is on there will be people out there who will
be in fire accidents which could cause them serious injury or
even death, just because the firemen want a pay rise. Besides,
wouldnt the fact that you wouldv'e saved peoples life be more
precious then the amount of money you recieve? |
| Che,
Stevenage |
Monday
6 January, 2003 |
|
| Nigel,
you've been advocating moving appliances from the city to outlying
areas of london because as your stats put it there are 500 000
people during the day and 5 000 at night. This maybe correct,
i dont know how many fire engines there are in the Square mile
but lets say for arguments sake there were 10. If you were to
move threequarters of these - you still have three to cover
fire and accidents that may occur - does 7 fire appliance movements
make all that difference out of hundreds of fire appliances
in london? You could not do the same anywhere else in london
as there are high density residential areas everywhere else
and what about places such as the west end? Particularly when
new licensing laws come into effect. This is not what the bain
report is all about because nowhere else in the uk is like london
and the square mile! The basic fact is if you were trapped by
fire you wouldnt care how much fire safety i did, you wouldnt
care if my appliance went out twice the day before, you wouldnt
care how many fire certification inspections we did that day,
what you would care about is that we get there NOW and that
when we do get there we are capable of getting you out NOW.
As you know we do far more than you like to portray and you
never know it may be you who requires help one day - im not
so nieve as to say that it will never happen to me because it
could and does happen to firefighters and there families. There
are simply two seperate subjects the first is decent pay - you
believe we get, i do not. we could both argue our cases and
move no further forward. The second is the bain report and its
proposals - quite simply they are an agenda for cuts and at
the end of the day it is you (and me) as members of Joe Public
who will suffer - but you will only find this out when you dial
999. Of course financially we all will be paying more for goods
and services (Fees for afas will be passed on),more for car
insurance (fees for rtas will be passed to you through premiums)
and more for home and business insurance (because the longer
a fire burns then the harder it is to put out, and the more
damage it causes). Lets face it law abiding people will pay
more through these than if the government had settled the 40%
in full and we would still have a fire service that is the best
in the world. |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Friday
3 January 2003 |
|
| Nigel
You are asked for facts. London get an average of 830 various
calls throughout a 24 hr period divided by the 108 fire stations
some of which are very quiet as you put it 2 calls whereas the
remainder are constantly in and out to calls.However the one
appliance you saw may be from a one appliance station and been
going onto an adjoining firestation ground to make the attendance.
Good idea call out bonus at busy stations But having every firefighter
at one station does seem a bit daft as every firefighter would
want some of the bonus as would you in your profession. As for
moving the Fire Appliances out to the suburbs with the crews
who is going to pay for the additional fuel costs?? Who will
pay for the refurbishment of the outlying stations to account
for the additional personnel attending ie: Toilet Shower and
Kitchen facilities?? What time do you advocate the appliances
leaving the inner stations to go to the suburbs and what time
would they return?? or will this all be payed for by the cuts
allowing no pay rise as there was no money left in the kitty.
|
| John
Smythe, UK |
Friday
3 January 2003 |
|
| Try
this address for the Pathfinder Review,some sites do without
the 3 little letters at the start. safety.odpm.gov.uk/fire/fepd/fcr/fcrhome.htm
|
| M
Brooker, Bedford |
Friday
3 January 2003 |
|
|
I think they should be allowed to strike to get the wages that
they deserve because there are plenty of people who are overpaid
who dont save lives, like footballers for example who dont deserve
£20,000+ a week wages. makes you sick dont it!!! |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Friday
03 January, 2003 |
|
| John:
I cannot dispute the three main reasons you gave for fires starting,
but surely this adds weight to redistributing personnel away
from empty office blocks and towards where people are living.
Also £8.50 is a lot less than £13.74 minus tax. I hope this
doesn't also include your pension contribution which, although
forming a significant part of your outgoings, gets reimbursed
substantially when you retire. I've made constructive suggestions
on this subject before. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Friday
03 January, 2003 |
|
| Peter:
I hate statistics as much as the next man but you need something
to prove your point. (or at least fool people into thinking
that you've done some research!) I've done plenty of work outside
Fire Stations in several major cities and have to say that during
a typical working day of 8-10 hours, I've rarely seen more than
2 responses. Of these calls, most have been single appliances.
I'm not doubting your word, only quoting my experience. If you
advocate a call-out bonus to reflect the additional work done
by busy Stations, then you can have my support for this. This
is, however, substantially different to a blanket massive pay
rise. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Friday
03 January, 2003 |
|
| Dear
All: I've had a quick look for the Pathfinder Report but all
I can find is an extract from Guardian Unlimited dated 21 Dec
02 which describes it as an "unpublished report." Obviously,
I cannot comment further on its contents. The Guardian article
doesn't help as comments made include increasing the staffing
and equipment of the Fire Service by 50% yet that a significant
cut in the financing of the Fire Service would not significantly
increase the risk to life. Nick Raynsford (Fire Services minister),
who made these comments, also indicated that he had not seen
the full report. If somebody can point me towards the full text,
I would be grateful - indicate by way of keywords to be entered
in a search engine as links aren't permitted in this web-page.
With regard to the Bain Review, this being the only formal document
on the subject that I've been able to get hold ! of, I have
not progressed any further with it since before Xmas. Though
it may come later, the bit I've read hasn't actually advocated
cutting the staffing, merely redistributing it to follow people,
based on the requirements assessed by LOCAL Fire Officers. If
I find that cutting of the Service is proposed then I promise
that I will add this to my list of disagreements with the Review.
Nonetheless, this is digressing from the real issue. Even the
part of the Bain Review that I've read hasn't given any reasons
why firefighters should receive a pay rise in excess of the
cost of living, much less the rise that it recommends. |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead Herts |
Thursday
02 January, 2003 |
|
| TO
ALL HAPPY NEW YEAR. Now down to business. We are off again,
Statistics, Rhubarb, Rubbish, Blah Blah. Enough of Figures as
averyone of them can and are deliberately distorted. Nigel these
figures must come from Hicksville, I dont look at averages Try
a Major City where stations get average of up to 15 calls per
24hr period times your 1.5hours each gives 22.5 hrs work plus
lunch tea supper training and community fire safety, cleaning
and servicing makes interesting figures dont it nigel as you
see I have just destroyed your figures. Still sticking to bain
NO COMMENT ABOUT PATHFINDER REPORT. The Pathfinder report has
taken 3 yrs to complete and has been properly Government funded
and cost £8m. The report has looked at all aspects Where as
the bain review has been thrown together in 3 months with nothing
but cuts, WHICH ONE IS CORRECT |
| John
Smythe, UK |
Thursday
02 January 2003 |
|
| Get
real Nigel, the ?8.50 per hour is the take home figure, you
know after Gordon Brown has taken his cut. It does not matter
how many calls a Station gets in a shift or a tour of duty or
a year, they are there for one thing only, to provide a service
or Fire Cover to the public, to be there when they are needed.
We do have quiet periods, but that is not a reason to shut down
a station or change the way in which it is staffed, it is not
like industry, people stop buying a product, the factory closes,
people are made redundant, you cannot do this with the Fire
Service, fire only takes a short holiday, it will always come
back, why, because the 3 main causes of fire are Men, Women
& Children, in that order. We do also do a few other things
as well which I am sure you know about so I won't list them. |
| Bill
Stevenson, Stevenage |
Tuesday
31 December, 2002 |
|
| Statistics
have been used in abundence to enforce lot of criticism aimed
at the Firefighters for the amount of hours they actually spend
fighting fires. This is unfair as it does not take into consideration
the other work the Fire Service do. We should all stop using
statistics to prove/disprove a point. Using statistics, there
is enough food produced worldwide to prove that famine does
not exist, but it does. Mathmatical data has proven that a Bumblebee
cannot fly, but it does. It's not about the amount of work the
Firefighters do, it's about what they are PREPARED to do to
save lives and property. It takes a special kind of person to
become a Firefighter. They are not greedy, self centered semi-skilled
manual workers. They are courageous professionals. When the
call comes we will expect these people to put our safety first
and their own second. Firefighters will do this without question
as has been proven in a number of disasters. Most people kid
themselves that they would show just as much courage if put
into the same situation, what rubbish. Self preservation is
a basic human instinct which few people can ignore. Firefighters,
fortunately for the rest of us, can and do. |
| Bill
Stevenson, Stevenage |
Tuesday
31December, 2002 |
|
| I
was joking Nigel, lighten up. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Tuesday
31 December, 2002 |
|
| John
Smythe: FBU figures for call-outs suggest an average of less
than two calls per shift with less than 1.5 hours attendance
on each. Perhaps your Station is one of the busier ones. As
you mention the "most workers," perhaps you would also consider
that 53.5% of workers in Hertfordshire and 62.2% in Bedfordshire
earn less than ?24k. 34.2% and 40.3% respectively earn less
than ?18.2k. (Office for National Statistics, April 2002). These
figures include people who have been working for more than 30
years. Your current wage of ?21.5k seems fairly typical of that
in your area. As this can be attained after only four years
service, the younger firefighters must be more affluent than
their peers. Incidentally, the ONS figures don't include the
unemployed or part-time workers, so it could be argued that
they are artificially high. I still don't understand why you
want £13.74 per hour when the firefighters at St Albans
had a board outside their Station asking for just £8.50
per hour. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Tuesday
31 December, 2002 |
|
| Bill
Stevenson: Greetings were sent on Xmas Eve. 3 Counties posted
them on Xmas Day, presumably the same day you sent your reply.... |
| John
Smythe, UK |
Monday
30 December, 2002 |
|
| Yes
Nigel, £3.91 per hour before stoppages, that is what I said
and that is what a 40% increase of the current hourly rate equates
to. Why do you keep talking about the number of days we work
each year ? it is nothing to do with number of days it is the
hours. 48 hours per 8 day tour of duty which equals 42 hours
per week over the period of 1 year. (most workers do 37 hours
per week) and yes we are allowed to rest at night because the
shift is 15 hours long and no we don't get much rest beacause
of the number of callouts we get so you cannot plan to do anything
the morning after the last night duty because we may not be
fit enough to do so. |
| Bill
Stevenson, Stevenage |
Friday
27 December, 2002 |
|
| Nigel
from Luton. I personally think you are sad, lonely little man.
Who else would bother to spend time posting messages on Christmas
day!!. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
25 December, 2002 |
|
| Che:
You've got it. I would like to see an increase in the night-time
staffing in the likes of Beds & Herts. I haven't read through
the rest of the Bain review since I last mentioned it but it
does seem to propose that levels of staffing are decided at
local level and this gives the opportunity for transfer of night-time
staff from, say, City of London to North London. (I don't know
the district boundaries, so please be patient). I suspect that
the outer suburbs won't get a look in anyway but at least some
people will sleep more comfortably. If the control moves to
local level, then at least some common sense can be applied
to the numbers, rather than a central authority (looking at
the whole country) deciding staffing levels based on a general
overview. It also makes sense to charge COMPANIES for abortive
call-outs where a faulty automatic alarm is to blame (apparently
up to 50% of the call-outs in city areas). Until the companies
improve the alarm systems after being hit in the pockets, this
would be a source of revenue to the Fire Service. Since this
government came into power, it has been delegating its powers
to other institutions, finally it seems to have a Review which
recommends a sensible delegation to knowledgable and considerate
authorities. Of course, when I read more, I may change my mind,
but until then.... |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
25
December, 2002 |
|
| Regardless
of which side of the fence you stand, I sincerely wish you a
Merry Christmas and a Happy, Safe and Peaceful New Year. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
25
December, 2002 |
|
| Barbara:
Just to keep the record straight, part of my job involves ensuring
that firefighters entering burning office buildings DON'T encounter
additional hazards. There are many who consider economies (after
all, there may not be a fire) and want to save a few hundred
pounds. I don't. I will continue to do my level best to ensure
that your husband comes home from work without burns or lung
damage, so please restrict your comments to providing reasons
why firefighters should get a pay rise or correcting mistakes
I may make. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
25
December, 2002 |
|
| John
Smythe: Are the firefighters asking for an extra £3.91
per hour before stoppages? After 4 years (if qualified} they
currently get £9.83. Are you really advocating a basic
rate of £13.74? Have you considered that firefighters
work only 161 days per year (202 if you add the day following
the night shifts)? |
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