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The
Fire Brigades' Union is calling for a 40% pay rise and have rejected
the 4% they have been offered.
As
the army and their Green Goddesses are mobilised, fears are growing
in Beds, Herts and Bucks that emergency cover may not be sufficient.
Should
this action be allowed? Do they deserve 40 per cent? What's the
answer? Have your say here.
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| che,
stevenage |
Monday
23
December, 2002 |
|
| Nigel
its all very well you talking about london and shuffling pumps
about the city but what about Herts or Beds i would assume you
advocate an INCREASE in appliances and firefighters at night
as you quite rightly state the people move out from the city
to counties like this, the place where you and i live. Problem
is Bain doesnt advocate this - his terms of reference are to
cut the cost of the fire service and the only way to do this
is to cut its most valuble asset - its staff - then reduce the
cost of its staff so the much flaunted pension will go (He states
this), training will be reduced (too expensive) eventually skills
will be reduced (he advocates this as well). Over time this
will equate to more deaths and injuries you dont need to be
a professor to work it out. Currently EVERY firefighter is capable
of doing EVERY job needed this saves valuble time at incidents
and is, funnily enough, cost effective - no need to call on
extra appliances so the kit can be operated. The fire service
hasnt stood still for 25 years it has moved on and evolved systems
of work that are safe and effective. I dont personally like
handling and dealing with dead people however this will be the
result of cost cutting, paying firefighters ?30 000 per year
for the professional skills they have and the professional job
they do will kill no one and will certainly not affect the economy.
i think i would be right in saying Mr Blairs next adventure
abroad will do both. I am not a bad person dont make me out
to be one because i recognise the value of my own worth. |
| Barbara
Cooke, Hemel Hempstead Herts |
Monday
23
December, 2002 |
|
| Nigel
you ARE very much against firefighters you have to argue in
your petty way on everthing and to say you have not met anyone
who is not on the firefighters side is either a LIE or you only
talk to people like I said I have spoken to who are against
the dispute,or for it. one thing for certain I have not said
everybody is for the dispute if you read my letter properly!
Yes I am married to a fireman and yes you could say I am bias
to him wanting a wage rise but lets get facts straight if your
wife (if you have one) did not stand by you, your marriage is
not worth it . What I dont like is YOU who I think is very small
minded relying on the Bain report and nothing else to quote
your small minded facts every time you reply I think you are
Tony Blair who goes under the name of Nigel. Again you have
not got your facts right when you said about the 10,000 firefighters
they will! be RETIRING from a job THEY (not you) Love They are
the 10,000 dedicated people who have to leave a job in what
you would call modernisation with a attitude like yours are
you going to be kind hearted and offer them jobs ? I think not
you are inclined to think they are all going to be well off
money grabbers, who can have a monoply on holding the country
to ransom what a very sad way you have at looking at things.
I doubt you have any firefighter freinds who would even begin
to listen to you pull the job they do apart, because someone
like you would not like them to do the same to you in the job
you do so well ? |
| MIke,
Bedford |
Monday
23
December, 2002 |
|
| Is
it not strange that we no longer here about the talks going
on at ACAS??? and no new strikes untill after the New Year????(
only two days) could it because that once the war starts in
Iraq we will need the 16.000. troops on fire cover to go to
war and who will cover the fire strike !!!! Is this a way for
the fire service to get the money they clam for.or will the
Govenment use this as its new spin as not to pay any extra pay
to any one as we will have to pay for the war....? |
| Diana,
Abbots Langley |
Monday
23
December, 2002 |
|
| I
would simply like to say, give the fireman a decent wage for
a job which calls for dedication, skill and bravery. £21,500
is a joke in this day and age for a skilled and often dangerous
occupation. It's all very well telling firemen to get another
job if they are not happy with the pay, but what happens when
we have a shortage of fireman, because no-one wishes to join
the service due to poor pay? Yes, it is difficult to accept
them striking, because we all know that there is a high risk
of a disaster when they are on strike, but it is the government
that are holding them to ransom knowing full well that an awful
lot of the public will not support striking fire fighters. So,
yell and scream at the government and not our long suffering
fire fighters. HAPPY XMAS TO ALL FIREMAN AND GOOD LUCK WITH
YOUR FIGHT!!!! |
| Steve,
Luton |
Monday
23 December, 2002 |
|
| Well
said John - I'm sick of Nigel's ramblings too.... Happy Christmas
to all |
| John
Smythe, UK |
Monday
23 December, 2002 |
|
| Perhaps
this have your say should be re-named the Nigel message board.
He really is a very bitter person. The Fire Services job is
to save life and to protect propery. Peoples lives fist and
then their livelyhood. What he dosn't seen to realise is that
an awfull lot of companies badly affected by fire do not re-open,
or downsize considerably. This so called exorbitant pay claim
is for an increase of £3.91 per hour before stoppages for a
qualified firefighter with 5 years service. 40% of peanuts is
peanuts. The Pathfinder review is an eye opener,it will be out
for all to see soon, The 8 million pound government review into
fire coverIt will more than likely be leaked because the government
do not want to publish it as it is the complete opposite of
the Bain review. |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Monday
23 December, 2002 |
|
| Kelv
Your Council Tax and mine will rise cosiderably with or without
the Firefighters payrise, and just in case you are BLIND and
DEAF the Firefighters have dropped our claim to as low as 16%,
you didn`t see the Government drop their 40% or have they come
to talks with the FBU they are sticking to the BLAIR REVIEW.
NIGEL The reason for the shortage of appliances and Firestations
in the Suburbs is they were the cuts last time round to save
money, Because the Government have continually cut the budget
to the National Fire Service.Now what about this Government
review that has suddenly appeared (not the Bain report) stating
that the National Fire Service should be increased and that
the Retained and Volunteer Firefighters should be FULL TIME,
the report also states that in the long term it would be cost
effective and save more lives and property. 2 reports 2 conclusions
and 5 persons that know EVERYTHING about the Fire Service, Blair,Prescott,Brown,Reynsford,Bain.
After all look how much Fire Ground experience and expertise
they have ABSOLUTE ZIP,their only interest is MONEY not LIVES
or FAMILIES |
| Kelv,
Stevenage |
Saturday
21 December, 2002 |
|
| 40%?
That is vastly unrealistic in this century with inflation running
well below 4% for years & everybody else having to settle for
modest or no pay rise. As for risking their lives, well Im sure
they do once or twice (most fire tackling is done with a set
procedure & safety being paramount, lives are rarely put at
risk). The fire fighters should accept a 5% rise & be grateful
& the blind support I guess comes chiefly from those women who
coo every time they pass the offices & factories, though Im
at odds as to why they should fancy someone dressed up like
Paddington bear. However before you next toot & support your
firefighters' laughable pay claim remember that should a 40%
pay claim be granted your council tax for next financial year
will rise dramatically (possibly around 16-20% !!!)...Yes you
hadnt thought of that had you? |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday
21 December, 2002 |
|
| From
the Firefighter Official Bulletin 23: "PUBLIC NEEDS TO WAKE
UP Providing the local public the opportunity to find out the
facts behind the government spin machine is now the objective
of Lewes fire station in East Sussex, which earlier this week
launched what will be a series of open evenings. Only one person
turned up." Is this an indication of the level of support? |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday
21 December, 2002 |
|
| Emma:
Perhaps you've not considered that the police don't go to bed
during their night shifts? |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday
21 December, 2002 |
|
| Barb,
Hemel: I don't dislike firefighters. I dispute the arguments
given for their exorbitant pay claim. I also do not like being
held to ransom. If other occupations went on strike, the customers
of the companies involved would go to other suppliers, therefore
strike action would be between the workers and their employers.
The firefighters have a monopoly on their service, therefore
their actions affect the innocent. You say that you have met
more people on the side of the firefighters than not. Other
than on these pages, I have met NOBODY who sides with the firefighters.
Unless I am confusing you with somebody else who sent in a previous
e-mail, you are a firefighter's wife. As such, your circle of
friends probably is more biased towards the firefighters. Also,
your views are biased as you will be a beneficiary of any pay
rise. I'm not trying to have a dig at you, but justification
for a massive pay increase needs to be based on more than "I
think they should have one." Just as the next strike by public
service workers will almost certainly have the argument "They
had a big pay rise so why can't we?" With regard to night shift
staffing in the City of London, most of the buildings there
will be empty at night except for security staff who will either
be at the front desk (i.e. next to the big doors at the front)
or in the security office (almost invariably situated next to
the fire doors at the back). There is therefore minimal risk
to life in the event of a fire. Add to this the fact that virtually
all of these offices have automatic sprinklers and fire alarm
systems, therefore escape times are increased. They have dedicated
fire escape routes which provide one hour protection. Response
times by the Fire Brigade are faster because they don't have
to contend with the same volume of traffic as during the day.
Structural components also have fire protection which provides
between half an hour and two hours protection, so! f! ire damage
is likely to be restricted to the seat of the fire and smoke
damage to the floor level of the fire. The smoke damage, most
of which will probably occur before the Fire Brigade leaves
the Station is likely to be the major component of insurance
claims - while you can clean a window, you can't clean the inside
of a computer. The internal finishes of the offices need stripping
out, structural components need specialist cleaning and new
internal finishes need to be installed. Typically, this will
close down a building for several months, yet few people lose
their jobs because they will set up office elsewhere within
a few weeks. The same cannot be said of HOUSES - how long did
it take to process your last domestic insurance claim?. I have
said that I am not in disagreement with the section of the Bain
Review which advocates moving SOME of the firefighters to suburb
areas at night. This way the response times to the places where
PEOPLE live (and are more likely to! b! e involved in RTAs)
will be reduced. Am I wrong in favouring saving lives over preventing
computers burning, particularly when they will be discarded
anyway because they smell or have been soaked by water? If you
look at the Bain Review, you will find a map showing the distribution
of appliances around London. To me, the suburbs don't seem particularly
well served and I would prefer so see an increase in these areas.
Local Authorities don't have a bottomless pit of finances, so
it's unlikely that the number of Fire Stations will increase.
If the firefighters get their 40% rise, I wouldn't be surprised
if some of these Stations close in order to finance the wage
bill. So when you talk about 10,000 firefighters not being replaced
over the next 2 years, bear in mind the cause for it. The Bain
Review also advocates that decisions on staffing and shifts
are decided at local level, rather than by a remote central
authority which has no feel for the needs of particular areas.!
! The FBU seems to have dismissed the Bain Review out of hand
because it has only one agenda, "Gimme, gimme, gimme." I know
a few firefighters and, prior to the pay dispute, they would
extol the virtues of being in the Service - time off, second
jobs, social life, retirement at 50 while receiving a pension
higher than many people's wages etc. The firefighters current
wage is not low by any standards, particularly in respect of
the younger ones, and certainly they have better benefits than
vitually anybody else. |
| Emma
Davies, Bradford |
Fri
20 December, 2002 |
|
| i
feel that the firefighters have a birth right to get a wage
increase because as said before they are putting there OWN lives
at rosk to save others, just as the police do and yet the police
get paid more? What's going on there then! To those people who
think the firefighter's are putting more peoples lives at risk
through striking i ask them, if you had a cause would you be
fighting for it? |
| Barb,
Hemel |
Fri
20 December, 2002 |
|
| Nigel
you seem to have a hell of a lot to say for yourself! What is
your problem ? The way you go on it seems like you have been
rejected all your life by not being able to make a fireman as
you once said you thought about. Well I can tell you with a
attitude like yours towards ALL firefighters you would never
have made the grade. You have tried to bring every kind of argumant
you could have thought about into this dispute. O.K Lots of
people will have their say against the firefighters and believe
me I have met more who are on their side than not but I have
never met anyone like you who has to condemn and argue in the
attitude that you have. You need to look at your own life before
you keep going on and on about what the firefighters need to
do to please the likes of you (which I am glad to hear you are
on your own).Oh And I finaly understand Nigel of Luton realy
does hate! firefighters! Because one sentence he goes on about
less firefighters at night and in his next statement he says
no one will be made redundent he obviously does not know it
all when NO there wont be redundancies they Just wont replace
the 10,000 firefighters that are due to retire in the next 2
years that is a fact! so how will these empty offices at night
cope if they started to burn I dont think your that stupid do
you Nigel? So maybe when even more people are out of work due
to their offices going up in smoke and insurances going up at
a fast rate you can have even more to blame the firefighters
and FBU for. |
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