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The
Fire Brigades' Union is calling for a 40% pay rise and have rejected
the 4% they have been offered.
As
the army and their Green Goddesses are mobilised, fears are growing
in Beds, Herts and Bucks that emergency cover may not be sufficient.
Should
this action be allowed? Do they deserve 40 per cent? What's the
answer? Have your say here.
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| Gareth
Auckland, Milton Keynes |
Tuesday
28
January, 2003 |
|
| i
feel that the suggestion that the Fire Brigade is selfish for
not accepting a 4% pay raise when Perliment votes them selves
a 40% pay rise earlier on this year is ludicres. The fire brigade
is one of the few services that involves people putting their
lives on the line for others when there are careers that pay
3 or 4 times what these men and women are getting and dont have
half the risk of death or injury. Maybe during conflict the
Fire brigade shoudl not stirke...but may i add we are not yet
at war so i say let them strike and when the government reallises
they are expendable maybe then tjhey will come to there sense's
and start to pay a realistic salary to these people. |
| Eileen
Barnett, Reading |
Tuesday
28
January, 2003 |
|
| No
I don't think they are right to strike. If you look at the training
and eventual salaries of similar jobs, i.e. armed forces, then
the firemen are paid much more. The armed forces face real life-threatening
dangers every day. Firemen don't. They're skills are needed
WHEN they are needed, but this is NOT 24hrs a day. Most firemen
have two jobs and are quite nicely off. They work 2 days and
2 nights which isn't that much. They should change with the
times. The soldiers etc. are now on stand-by for war with Iraq
which is much more life threatening than staying in the firestation
watching the tv. They should join the rest of us living in the
real world in the world of the 21st century where no job is
safe and the economic outlook is bad. Eileen Barnett |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Tuesday
28
January, 2003 |
|
| Suprise
Suprise at last the Communist Dictatorship of new labour has
shown itself for what it really is, DO AS YOU ARE TOLD NOT AS
WE DO. Only us and big business can have 40%. You cant. BABY
Prescott has stamped his feet in a tantrum because he cant get
his own way by beating the Firefighters. He is now bringing
up Legislation from the 1940`s( Modern aint it ) to brow beat
the Firefighters back to work and set the pay as per Bain. Up
till now the FBU have been at all the talks the Employers aint,
Prescotts only statements have been Bain Bain Bain, how many
times must I emphasise it and Talk dont walk. Prescott has blamed
the Firefighters for costing millions to cover the strikes,
so although we have not been paid this didn`t cover the cost,
that proves that we are cost effective and can do the job with
3 times the amount of calls and more staff for lees than the
Military! . Got their sums wrong again. Whilst the Firefighters
are on duty you get a highly motivated and proffesional and
efficient service. If prescott gets his way and instigates his
policy you will get an Underfunded, Shortchanged, Inefficient
and demoralised Service. Blame will be firmly put on Blairs
doorstep. As for making an Underfunded Service work, not any
more. the Government will get their way as Firefighters will
leave taking their skills and knowledge with them, and that
includes me. As for using the skills at the end of operational
time, ie:- Training. Fire Prevention. This is now run as a Business,
for my skills 40k will do to start negotiating, the price goes
up not down. David Wrigley, what do you do for a living? then
I can analyse your job. As for the pay it has gone past that
now we are fighting to preserve your Emergency Service. Paramedic
read an earlier statement as to how long it takes to train,
and you would know the reasons. Point..If we attended a Heart
Attack Victim we would need to call for an Ambulance to take
them to Hospital Attendance time could take 40mins, 2 Emergency
Vehicles instead of 1 no Fire Cover Never mind the Government
dont care why should we!!!. John NEW YORK $33,000 at half the
cost of living not bad eh!! Go ahead sack them all, who will
train them?? who will give them the skills?? What do you do
for a living except Whinge, think of all the incidents that
happened on 9/11 across America. Sorry you aren`t you are from
Kent. So why are you over there? earning more there than here
for the same job no doubt. |
| John
(Man of Kent) New Rochelle, New York, USA. |
Tuesday
28
January, 2003 |
|
| So
the UK firefighters are up to their gun to head antics again
are they? They want more money, yet I believe that their basic
salary is twenty two thousand pounds per annum, and that converts
to about $33,000.00 per annum, which is a pretty nice salary
on either side of the Atlantic. Of course, we must not forget
that they also spend a good deal of their time lounging around
firehouses waiting for a call to action. I wonder how many of
you are paid to lounge around, plus all the other "perks" that
they enjoy. Their actions to date are a disgrace, and there
is an old saying over here that applies to these greedy individuals
and it is: "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame
on YOU". I think that they have spat on the British public enough
times now, so FIRE THEM ALL. It will be quite easy to replace
them. |
| David
Wrigley |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
| Do
firefighters have to do a full weeks work - as most of us do?
do they work none stop while on shift - as most of us do? how
many times in a shift are they called to a dangerous situation?
why not offer extra payment only when called to a dangerouse
situation, surely this would be better? why are they opposed
to gaining better knowledge of saving life - if i was given
the opportunity to be trained as a paramedic i would welcome
this, not turn it down as the firefighters are doing.In most
cases they are first on the scene, so it there were a trained
paramedic amongst them surely this would be a bonus. also having
more experience would mean higher pay? this is what its all
about - isnt it? |
| Che,
Stevenage |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
| Melanie
and Hayley, What started out as firefighters asking to negotiate
a pay increase is now a fight to stop cuts to the uk fire service.
You may seem to think cutting 1/3 of the uk fire service is
ok and wont really affect people as its always someone else
that needs to call them - i know this because people have said
it to me - after their home has been involved in a fire. By
cutting fire engines, fire stations and firefighters you are
asking fewer and fewer resources to go to more and more incidents
further and further away which means we arrive later and later
which ultimately means more and more people will die or be injured
and more and more property will be damaged which will mean me
and you pay more and more to insurance companies, who incidently
saw a massive rise in insurance payouts and costs when we were
on our 8 day strike. Sounds all very reasonable, so if we were
to accept the bain deal we would effectively being paid more
for allowing a worse fire service to the tax payers - that is
what Mr Blair and Co call Best Value! |
| Che,
Stevenage |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
|
Sarah, Birmingham dont you think it is stupid and immature that
our employers did not negotiate with us for over four months?
They acknowleded themselves a need to increase our salaries
yet could not bring themselves to actually name it or negotiate
it. They only started negotiating the week before the 1st strike
and only under pressure from government. We did eventually manage
to come up with a deal that the employers were happy with and
we were happy with unfortunately this deal did not allow for
the wholesale cuts to the uk fire service the government wished
for and so was blocked by government with one hour to go. The
cost to the government of this deal 100 million pounds. the
cost of the strike so far to the government 70 million pounds.
Its funny that two firefighters have died trying to save life
in the past 3 months yet neither had Tony Blair praise their
actions and neither had Tony Blair go to their funerals yet
they paid the unltimate price for doing thei! r job. Something
the unfortunate Detective in the midlands had the honour of.
I seem to remember mr blair praising the skills and abilities
of myself and my collegues when we went to the hatfield and
potters bar rail crashes yet when we want recognition of those
skills we are then labelled greedy, selfish, scum. Well come
on Mr Blair what are we? you obviously say whatever suits your
agenda and makes you look good to the public. |
| Peter,
Hemel |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
| Melanie
And Hayley. It appears that you dont mind if Firefighters get
hurt or killed as long you dont. When I am on strike even my
own family are at the same risk as you are. Sarah Anyone would
think that we were exempt from the risk of no Emergency Services,
we are the same as you. Blame Blair and his cronies, they have
not bothered to talk to acas, all they do is send a message.
|
| Sarah,
Birmingham |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
|
I am strongly against the firefighter strike because they are
putting other peoples lives at risk. they are moaning because
they say they don't get enough money for what they do but they
chose to do that job knowing exactly how much they were getting
payed. Overall i think it is irresponsible and immature. |
| Melanie
and Hayley, Birmingham |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
| We
are against this because even though they risk their lives we
could die for it. i dont suppose they would like it if they
were trapped in a blaze. we are strongly against it and they
get paid more than the average person. They are luckier than
some people !!! |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
| AB
Luton Why should people put up with low wages and high bills
just to suit the Labour howlers and mismanagement. SO SHUT UP
AND LIVE WITH IT |
| Marantha,
Devizes |
Tuesday
28 January, 2003 |
|
| They
do a good job they should get paid more. support them i am.
They do lots for our country they save lives for people but
they arnt getting payed enough for wot they do. |
| Bill
Stevenson, Stevenage |
Monday
27 January, 2003 |
|
| Blair,
Prescott and Bain can manipulate the figures how ever they want,
but when push comes to shove, I personaly would rather two fire
appliances turn up when only one is needed, rather than one
turn up and have to wait for the second to travel 20 miles because
of modernistaion. One night last year my sister, who lives in
Stevenage Town centre opposite the Fire/Ambulance station, had
to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance to be dispatched from Letchworth.
What annoys me is that across the road from her we could see
Ambulances unmanned and sitting idle. Do we want the same of
our Fire service. |
| AB,
Luton |
Monday
27 January, 2003 |
|
|
Firefighters get alot more money than most people. Have any
of them bothered to look up the typical wages the rest of us
have to live on. My husband and I earn just over the amount
a single firefighter gets between the two of us. We manage to
pay the bills. All I have to say to the firefighters is do what
everyone else does - SHUT UP! AND LIVE WITH IT! |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Monday
27 January, 2003 |
|
| Where
do you start with this lot, well here goes. ROB in Saudi, I
wish you and your colleagues good luck and hope you stay safe,
you are doing a difficult job. The Military personnel have thrown
into the Firefighters dispute due to the Government not classing
the Fire Service as essential, this also goes for the Ambulance
Service as they can both be covered by yourselves. Michael Aylesbury
Answer I WILL WHEN I AM PAID..Adam Stevanage,several questions..
Do you support the war?? Why is the Military thin on the ground??
Why are they calling up the reserves??. As for coping with the
Strike yes they have JUST with only a third of the total normal
calls received NATIONALLY, most of which have become rough carparks
and Insurance write offs. Nigel The radios COST MONEY with the
Bain review OOPS CUTS who pays??. Pathfinder covers a single
scenario so does Bain CUT CUT AND CUT. the Pathfinder has 19
d notices because it contradicts Bain so both are government
which is TRUE You answered it. Due to the increase of population
and increase in calls the numbers of personnel and appliances
needs to increase, cutting is not a logical development , ENOUGH
SAID BYE BYE BAIN. What about the Military at Barracks Just
guard duty the rest sleep waiting for something to happen. Yes
those on guard would get taken to task for sleeping. Going into
Fire Safety at 50-55yrs old. Private Companies pay 35k upwards
YES PLEASE thats more than I earn NOW |
| Che,
Stevenage |
Monday
27 January, 2003 |
|
| Adam,
When i joined Herts Fire and rescue i lived at home with my
mum, i paid next to nothing in terms of bills etc, and yes i
was rather well off because the £15600 pound wage i started
on was basically spending money. Then, rather selfishly, i got
married and had a son. Trouble was i didnt think i would ever
get married etc so when i joined i didnt think of the consequences
of life and the wages i earned. I dont think i am unique in
this lack of judgement - however when it came to moving out
of my one bed council flat and buying a home( minimum of 6 years
for council house) in stevenage i and my wife who also worked
full time could not afford a mortgage together. Adam yes i did
join to save lives and actually make a real difference to someones
life whilst at work, is it then wrong to expect to be paid an
equivalent salary that reflects my skills? You go on to mention
the armed services (its not just the army) well you are right
they do an adequate job at incidents when peoples lives are
not involved. I went to an incident from my picket line and
rescued a man trapped in his van. he would surely of died if
we had not because the RAF rescue van had neither the equipment
or the Firefighters had the training to of accoumplished the
extrification. this has been repeated throughout the country.
The Green Goddess crew that attended had had a grand total of......
1 and a half hours total fire training each oh and the Green
Goddess broke down at the incident as well. I assume that you
are a teacher as you make the reference to teachers, do you
not think you are wrong comparing professions that are uncomparable.
Teachers do a fantastic job under difficult circumstances but
their desicions do not have life and death consequences their
tools are those of learning ours are of saving life in any circumstance.
It seems to me that not just yourself but many people just do
not understand the real role of a firefighter, Londons Burning
is not at all a true reflection of our job as The Bill is not
that of a Police Officer and Grange Hill is not reflective of
Teachers! I will keep striking until my employers who have ignored
us for a few moths short of a year actually sit down and start
negotiating unfortunately at the moment they want us to sit
down and negotiate 'a non negotiable deal'. the dispute will
be ended by meeting in the middle somewhere so the ball is in
the employers court. |
| David,
Biggleswade |
Sunday,
26 January, 2003 |
|
| In
my opinion the emergency services especially fire fighters do
one of the hardest jobs you can do so why do they get paid under
30000 a year when some guy who kicks a ball around a field gets
millions. there is enough money in our economy to pay everyone
a decent set wage enough to live off |
| Bill,
Stevenage |
Saturday
25 January, 2003 |
|
|
I have read most of the Bain review and there are some good
points made. But let's be realistic, the Government will only
implement the ones that save money. Read between the lines and
you will see that the Government agenda is to eventually privatise
the Fire Service. |
| Adam,
Stevenage |
Saturday
25 January, 2003 |
|
| No
matter what job you do you will always believe it to be underpaid.
The prime reason people chose to become a firefighter is I expect
to: save lives, be a member of a team etc etc. Before joining
the rate of pay is known and an informed decision to become
a figherfighter is made with 100% knowlegde of pay and benefits.
I do not doubt that the service provided is very good, but the
army have proved that an adequate job can be done with far less
sophisticated equipoment and 1/3 of the man power. Firefighters
only work 4 days a week and many have second jobs which make
up their salary. Many experienced teachers do not have a salary
of £30k and I believe they have a more demanding job carrying
far more responsibility than the average firefighter. I believe
the government is right in not giving into firefighters excessive
demands. I also believe the fire brigade union should not be
holding the government and the country to ransom by striking
and stretching the armed services resources in a time when national
security is threatened. That is irresonsible and not at all
professional. A firefighter is not worth £30k a year - get real.
|
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday,
25 January, 2003 |
|
| Peter,
Hemel: With regard to your comment about the Army sleeping at
night, sleeping on duty is a severe offence and receives appropriately
severe punishments. A large proportion of the Army would have
been awake during the nights before the Iraq issue because they
are stretched so thinly on the ground in most of the world's
trouble spots. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday,
25 January, 2003 |
|
|
In response to your questions: 1. How much should a qualified
firefighter earn? - Difficult, as I believe the whole system
of pay should change. Under the current structure, I think a
5% rise to cover cost of living increases would be fair. I would,
however, prefer trainees to start on a lower wage, say £14k,
rising in monthly increments to a maximum of £17k. On qualification,
a jump to £20k, thereafter equal annual increments leading to
£32k at age 65. Between ages 50 and 55, depending on fitness
and preference, the firefighter would leave the operational
role and undertake less physically demanding work such as promoting
fire safety, routine checks etc. By continuing to work at this
age, there would be no need to build up such a large pension
so that take-home pay would be effectively increased by about
6% in comparison to current values, paying 5% into a pension
fund, rather than 11%. The employer would be paying 10% into
the pension fund instead of 22%, this saving being used to fund
the additio! nal length of employment. The numbers have just
been pulled out of the air but are based on what I think is
reasonable for people at the start and end of a life-long employment.
2. Do I believe cutting the number of firefighters......? Not
again, I've been through this with Che and John. Simple answer
- NO! though I do believe that shuffling them about has a lot
of merit. Firefighters, have some ammunition donated by Nigel
- the population of Britain is increasing, therefore the numbers
of fires and other emergencies will also increase. While some
of this can be absorbed by firefighters being busier, in the
already-busy areas, the numbers of personnel and appliances
need to increase. Cutting is not a logical development. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday
25 January, 2003 |
|
| Bill,
Stevenage: Under the Pathfinder report, you could find more
vacancies for higher echelon positions advertised. It suggests
that applicants from a non-Brigade background are enrolled for
the managerial positions (Sub-Officer upwards) because firefighters
don't generally have the intellect for office work. (Not my
words, before people jump on my back). This obviously severely
restricts the promotion prospects for the people who "do the
job" and will end up producing the same situation that we have
with the Health Service - people who don't appreciate the consequences
of their actions creaming the bulk of the finances. The particular
post you quote would seem to be a follow-up from the Bain Review
which described the Fire Service as institutionally racist.
I wouldn't worry about the description as I suspect it was a
condition of the Government funding of the report that it had
to be included somewhere. The post has obviously been created
to appease the Politically Correct Brigade and will require
the holder to send annual questionnaires asking your ethnic
origin and to put the little bit about "ethnic minorities/women
are currently under-represented in this area" in job adverts.
How come we never see that bit in adverts for road sweepers
or encouraging ethnic english doctors? |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday
25 January, 2003 |
|
|
Peter, Hemel: The Pathfinder report starts by making it clear
that it has only considered a single scenario and that many
others need to be considered before any decisions are taken.
Hence it is, at best, incomplete. My view is that it has been
a lengthy and costly exercise which, without the other scenarios,
wasn't worth bothering with. I don't know what censorship has
been applied to it (obviously, as you inform that it has been
censored) but would not be surprised if at least some of the
censorship is because the Government would then be called to
account for wasting so much public money (again). I would love
to see the Ove Arup criticisms of the draft which were glossed
over (not even cleverly) without description in the final version.
|
| Nigel,
Luton |
Saturday
25 January, 2003 |
|
| Che:
Yes, Bain IS raking up ideas that currently exist, but the main
point of his proposal is that the LOCAL Chief Officers can decide
whether or not they are appropriate in their area, rather than
have some Central Government office-wallah dictate what ALL
Brigades have to do. The Bain Review doesn't state what HAS
to be done, therefore it doesn't contradict itself when two
opposing ideas are put forward. As an example, I quote (approximately)
two statements made by one of your colleagues on these pages
- 1. Most fire-related deaths occur before the Fire Brigade
is called. 2. The Fire Brigade responds within 5 minutes. Both
statements are true but taken out of context tend to suggest
that one of the appliances attending could be replaced by a
hearse. With regard to your out of date radios, has nobody thought
of changing to mobile phones? |
| Michael,
Aylesbury |
Saturday
25 January, 2003 |
|
| One
word to the fireman : get real and get back to work. Get on
with your job and let the Armed Forces get on with theirs for
the greater national and international good. |
| Rob,
Saudi |
Friday
24
January, 2003 |
|
| John
Luton, I am actually here to patrol the no-fly zone over Southern
Iraq in order to stop Saddam Hussain bombing the Kurds. It is
incidental that my squadron will be used in any conflict with
Iraq. Who do you think protects British Airspace against hostile
A/C, whether military or hijacked airliners? And before you
suggest that it is only because of the twin towers, we have
had Quick Reaction Alert 24 hours a day, 365 days a year ever
since the end of the cold war. Oh and who provides search &
rescue cover for coastal and mountain areas? |
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